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January 23, 2004I'm A Liberal, Not An Idiotby Armed Liberal at January 23, 2004 3:14 PM
My favorite whipping journalist - no, sorry, I shouldn't say that, that's really an insult to journalists - Steve '300K' Lopez, of the L.A. Times, is all over a plan by a couple of state college professors to get rid of the deficit by having a couple of rich people write checks and make it go away. [Update: Patterico has exactly the same post. We've never been seen together, you know...] While many of my friends have some of the same fantasies about their credit card bills, and I recall Richard Condon had a great line about it in one of the Prizzi books - the one where he's remade as a Park Avenue WASP and run for President (now there's a candidate I could back!! Which one is the Mafia hit man candidate, that's what I want to know...), it's somewhat more problematic where I live, in reality. 300K says in his January 11 column: California, after all, is in the middle of the pack in state and local taxation, and we've got personal wealth like nobody's business. In 2000, according to Wong's numbers, 784 Californians with incomes above $200,000 paid no income tax at all. What's the point of having an action hero as governor if he isn't going to track those people down, put them in headlocks and grab their wallets? And damn, does he love that idea. He goes on to extol it more in his Jan 21 column: ...let me give you the background. Now let me point out two teeny problems with this notion. The first one is theoretical, but has been pretty well borne out in recent tax policy history. I'm willing to spend all the money I can raise by taxing you, and maybe a little more. When it doesn't cost me anything, why not? The notion that the variable tax burden can be shifted to someone else - whether higher income taxpayers, or those who make their living from wages and not dividends - makes raising those taxes and spending pretty damn attractive. To put it terms that 300K might understand, it's like giving your kid a credit card you make the payments on. it might work out, but in most cases, it will end badly. So the politics of it get messy. And then there's the little problem that it doesn't work. Somehow, the Sacramento Bee got Dan Weintraub, and we got stuck with 300K. It's just not fair. Here's Weintraub's Sunday column on the subject: Why should we care? The volatility in income and behavior mean that it's damn hard for the state to rely on stable revenues from the ever-shrinking group of people deemed rich enough to be taxed. When I talk about behavior, I mean two things: many of them move away (cf Jim Clark), and most of them (even me) can 'engineer' their income around tax policy to minimize taxes. Now, remember that I'm the guy who explicitly supports redistribution. I have no ideological bias against the idea that the rich should pay proportionately more, even a lot more. But I have this funny quirk. I believe that whatever the tax policy is, it has to work. That's because I'm a part of the future Party of the Sensible, one that believes that policies should be judged on more than their good intentions. I dinked around with an idea which I may try and get into the Hope Street competition if I can get some time to do research (or if I can find a volunteer to help out). Sales taxes are anathema to progressives, because they are inherently regressive...lower-income household have to spend most of their income to survive, and so wind up paying a far higher percentage of their income in sales taxes. But they are stable, and more importantly, they are the means whereby those who earn in the cash economy contribute their share. Simply put, we ought to bump the state sales tax by a fairly significant amount, and rebate it back to lower- and middle-income taxpayers, possibly by covering some portion of their payroll taxes with it. Note that some burden will fall on lower- and middle- income taxpayers; that can't be avoided, although it can be meliorated. Further note that those who live in the cash economy - who include illegal immigrants - will be disproportionately affected. Good; they need to pay their share, too. Here's a set of notions that might actually work:
I need to do the math more exactly, but it seems that we'd pick up a few billion in more-stable state revenues that way. And it wouldn't result in a policy that resulted in a very few high-income taxpayers being the sole revenue source for the state. Tracked: January 23, 2004 10:01 PM
57 Varities Of Spin from Feste...a foolsblog
Excerpt: Classless Warfare sums up the Dem Debate, saving me the grief, Thanks Jay. Alan Forkum updates with Mark Steyn's: How the Hulk exploded in Iowa All good stuff...but my fav graf is his put down of Kerry's "Comback Kerry" line....
Tracked: January 24, 2004 1:12 AM
ANOTHER BONEHEADED STEVE LOPEZ PROPOSAL from Patterico's Pontifications
Excerpt: By now, Steve Lopez is used to my calling his columns "boneheaded" -- so he won't be too shocked if I use that adjective to describe Wednesday's effort, titled Surcharge Not Too Taxing for Wealthy. Lopez pushes a pet idea...
Tracked: January 26, 2004 4:39 PM
http://www.hayekcenter.org/prestopunditarchive/002326.html from PrestoPundit.com
Excerpt: It's another Carnival of Capitalists. Worth highlighting, "I'm a Liberal, Not An Idiot Unlike Steve Lopez, an L.A. Times columnist...
Comments
#1 from JP Sobel at 4:59 pm on Jan 23, 2004
Enact a surcharge as described and I bet that the millionaires per capita rate in California drops quickly while that in Arizonia, New Mexico, and Nevada rises sharply.
#2 from Dave Schuler at 5:50 pm on Jan 23, 2004
Dear A. L.: Willie Sutton, bank robber of the 1930's, when asked why he robbed banks is said to have remarked "It's where the money is". This is the same reason that we tax the rich at higher rates--we can. And why any income tax cuts disproportionately benefit the rich--they pay the income taxes. The problem with most tax schemes is unforeseen secondary effects and the "let the billionaires donate the money" scheme has plenty of them. If I were a Californian (and my wife and all of her family, whom I love dearly are all Californians) I would go to the barricades to ensure that any scheme to get the state out of the red include institutionalized austerity. As has been pointed out California's problem is the double whammy of revenue shortfalls due to the ultra-rich having LESS income and profligate spending.
#3 from Digibum at 7:57 pm on Jan 23, 2004
The problem with all of these schemes is the fact that regardless of where you go in the world, historically, governments have never been able to collect more than 32% - 38% of the real GDP. You can raise the tax rates to 100% if you want but people with wealth will either flee or they will find means in which to get around the tax laws (black market trading -- think Soviet Russia). If I was a billionaire and these idiots at UCLA somehow got their wish, how hard is it for me to claim Nevada as my residence? Just buy a home in Nevada, get a new driver's license and claim it has your new residence. Hell, if push comes to shove, sell your home in Ca. and rent it back. We all act shocked that US firms have begun incorporating themselves overseas yet many scream for even more of the tax burden to fall onto them. This offshore trend is nothing more than the predictable result of what happens when government puts its hand too deep into any one groups pocket. There's an old saying that any government with the policy of robbing Peter to pay Paul will certainly have the support of Paul. "And it wouldn't result in a policy that resulted in a very few high-income taxpayers being the sole revenue source for the state." --or in a large but short-term bump in the income of, e.g., Mayflower Van Lines. Regards, I am not a billionaire, or even a millionaire, but this is exactly why I left California in 1999. It wasn't so much the fear of futher tax increases (I was no more prescient than anyone else), but that I could expect NO RELIEF from the very high rates. I miss the ocean. the weather, the better radio stations, and the better (if overcrowded) roads. OTOP, the marginal state income tax rate is HALF, while the sales tax is 1 point lower. The state was only getting $6000 in income tax from Me a year, but that went to zero when I moved away. If they had a lower top rate, perhaps I would have stayed. Alone, that would be enough to run the state for what, 2 seconds? But multiply by how many others did it, plus the people who made more than $100,000 (and could barely afford tract homes), and it adds up. I think A.L.'s proposal is not outlandish. The point I especially like is the "we're all in this together" aspect of it. EVERYONE should have to pay some of each kind of tax. Otherwise, you end up with too many people who think it's no skin off their nose (you see that with renters who OK property tax increases, since they "don't pay" them, at least they don't NOTICE they pay them) and readily vote to tax others. FYI, Lopez denies that he makes $300k.
#7 from M. Simon at 12:12 am on Jan 25, 2004
Lower taxed economies grow faster than those with higher taxes. It all depends on how you wish to help the poor. Do you want to give them opportunity - the growth economy. Or do you want to give them hand outs - the theft by government economy. It is also a moral question. Something Democrats seem to shy away from. At least the part about robbing Peter. Taxation is theft.
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