Sir Banagor argues in favour of the recent French laws banning headscarves and other prominent religious symbols. And stuff like this will certainly strengthen the law's popularity in France.
The Dissident Frogman argues against it, and finds himself in rather unusual company. Only les Francais, he says, could drive him to this.
Don't see anything wrong with Muslims thinking the French should adapt to them a little, and threatening to open private schools? Shock-horror!!
Of course, the French never asked any Muslims to adapt to them in their home countries, right?
Big LGF reader, Joe?
SAO - just for grins, what's your response to the fact that the Turks have done the same thing (actually more, in that they are limiting the ability of muslim women who work for the government to wear headscarves)?
...the legacy of Turkish colonialism? C'mon, you can make a better argument than this...
A.L.
I don't think the arguement carries over to Turkey as well as you'd like, A.L. Sure, it's Islamic identity again, but the women in Turkey are fighting for a lot more than just that.
In France there are nativist as well as secular tendencies at work. Judging from their history of colonialism, I'd say they have zero moral grounds for exercising the former. As for secularism in-itself, its a very important principle, but one that requires moderation.
Sha-WHAT?
Look, the issue isn't the relative motivations of the Muslim community in France and Muslim women in Turkey who are arguing over the scarf; it is that both governments banned the religious symbol - for specific reasons, which are real and should be debated.
Somehow you're arguing that France's colonialist history (note that my point about Turkey's was meant as sarcasm) means that they should simply accept an aggressively pro-sharia Muslim community within France, without taking any measures to respond?
Let's try again.
You were critical of France's proposed policies in your first comment, and suggested that the French 'should adapt to them a little'; I made the point that other countries who are struggling with the issue of 'secular' vs. 'sharia' have taken parallel steps, and that France's action should be viewed in that context (note that I'm not wildly pro-French, nor anti-Muslim).
A.L.
Why isn't the issue the relative motivations of the "Muslim community [or] Muslim women"? You're the one who made the (dumb) comparison, right?
I don't agree that both governments banned the religous symbol for the same reason, understand?
My main beef is with French nativism. Their secular tradition has as long history and is good in many ways, but is tainted with their hysteria regarding immigration (ala LaPen). I'd say they need to be more moderate in that regard (as other nations have), and I'm guessing we agree there.
Sorry. The comparison was not dumb by any means, but France does not have an Islamicist president, and Islamicist party, nor an Islamic-feminist movement.
Thats one big mistake the Franch made in ban religion iteams in school.Me i glade i live in America here there is this law called FREEDOM REIGIOUS!