As an Iranian, who has never been sympathetic with the Arab world - perhaps because of the historical problems between Iranians and Arabs - I think Palestinians suffer hugely from an image problem.
The truth is that Western values now dominate the world and given the fact that major media is controlled by Western countries, Israeilis look much more acceptable than Palestinians to average people in the world. It's not just their looks, clothes, or body language; Palestinians can hardly sell their political agenda to the world.
Aside from the question of who is right or wrong, it's a clear fact that more Palestinians have been killed than Israeilis in the past few years. But Palestinians, escpecially the extremist groups such as Hamas, don't seem to understand that the suicide bombers they send to resturants and cafes to kill innocent Jews are much more harmful to their own image than to Israel's will to stay there.
Isael's army, as far as I know, has rarely targeted civilians intentionally; many of the civilian Palestinian victims appear to be killed because of being aruond the targeted militants or by accident. However, no once can hide the fact that the suicide bombing strategy apparently means to kill as many innocent Jews as possible.
Whatever the argument of the Palestinians is, the image that they've created for themselves by the strategy of suicide bombing is much harder to be accepted by the majority of people in the world. So people, instead of starting to think about the reality of the crisis, immediately begin to dislike the Palestinians because of their unacceptable image.
In my opinion, extremist Islamic groups such as Hamas have completely damaged the image of Palestinian activists, which in turn has only benefited the extremist but smart Israeli groups.
I wonder what would happen if the Palestinian groups decided to perform non-violent civil disobedience en mass....
It'll be interesting to see both Israeli and worldwide response to Palestinians sitting down, performing hunger strikes,
and refusing to vacate areas marked for wall construction.
Hoder, you're wrong when you say the Palestinian strategy has only benefitted extremist Israelis. It has hugely benefitted at least 2 other groups:
[1] The terrorist leaders, many of whom are millionaires with significant political power because of this approach.
[2] Local Arab despots, who retain the Palestinian issue as THe #1 distraction to deflect popular discontent with their own regimes. Which is why they've undermined past peace initiatives, backed groups like Hamas and Hezbollah who will sabotage any chance of peace, and continue to deliberately cultivate the most vitriolic and despicable kinds of religious and ethnic hate to their own populations.
Just Wondering... if the Palestinians had practiced the non-violence strategy you describe in the mid-90s, they'd have a prosperous country of their own by now, acting as a major trading source within the Middle East (and often as "grey traders' for Israeli goods).
Now, such a strategy is too late to stop the Wall. The Israelis will build it, come hell or high water - because they see no alternative that can be trusted to keep them even partly safe. The Palestinians have cost themselves that chance. They may at some point receive their own state - but it will be isolated from its logical economic partner, its ongoing viability will be in question, and friction with nearby Arab states is likely as a result.
Actions have consequences.
I think Hoder is being too kind when he says palestinians have an image problem. Their problems are much more than cosmetic. Aside from the very real problems of Israeli occupation, they have grown into a people, or tribe for want of a better word, weaned on violence and victimhood. It is apparent in more ways than just suicide bombers. Theirs is a culture that rewards the most ruthless and destroys those that would change the status quo. From honor killings to homophobia, they choose to direct their anger and frustration on those among them that show any percieved weakness. It is this rigid thinking that prevents the more moderate voices from being heard. Until that changes, until there is an open struggle between those within the society who understand the way forward is not more blood-letting, they will remain as they are. The wounded dogs of the arab world. Too much trouble to fix and too dangerous to be left alone. Tied to the fence and penned in.
This is slightly OT, but:
Is it possible that Qadaffi is moving away from the Arab world because he thinks it is circling the drain and doesn't want to go with it?
Oscar, I think that may be exactly what he is doing. The guy is weird, but not necessarily stupid. And also it could be that if something bad happens to an American/Autralian/British city, he doesn't want to be on "The List."
Oscar,
If you're looking for the Libyan catalyst for change, look to Qadaffi's son, Saif:
"What most people don't know is that Khadafy may have undergone a change in political philosophy. I was recently in contact with a professor of economics who personally tutored Khadafy's son, Saif al-Islam, in conjunction with a course on Austrian economics in Vienna. The professor mentioned that the son's master's thesis was on the transformation of Libya from a dictatorial country to a free and open-market economy.
It is unlikely that the son could have written such a thesis, if the father hadn't approved it. And, in fact, it was the son who told CNN on December 20, 2003 that Libya's decision to surrender its weapons "will pave the way for the normalization of political relations with the states and also with the West in general."
"It's a critical deal for Libya," he said, because "we will get access to defensive weapons and no sanctions on Libyan arms imports anymore. We will get access to the know-how and technology in sectors which were banned."
Socialism is on the outs in the Arab world, with Islamism and Freedom/Open Markets as the 2 main contenders to replace it. Unlike some of its neighbours (vid. Egypt), Libya does not have the kind of intractable structural problems that make reform so difficult.
Another wave is beginning to travel from the West and through the Islamic world... and Libya is in a position to be one of that wave's early riders. They seem to be on the board, paddling hard. Yeah, Saif's a gremlin - but let's hope he can help his country go cheater 5 and hit the barrel, while Hodad Moamar supervises from shore.
If they're serious, a sand facial would be bad for us all.
Madison Avenue does not approve of indiscriminate mass murder. It simply does not form the basis of a public relations strategy that is likely to test well among Western demographics.
Brilliant point.
What? A moral dimension to strategies of indiscriminate mass murder? Oh, yeah, I guess that's another potential point of criticism....
The Palestinians suffer from an internal compass problem. Such a problem is likely to manifest itself to others as an image problem. If they fix the internal compass problem, the image problem will disappear without further effort. Nothing they can do to address the image problem will prove effective.
Forget the "We Shall Overcome" stuff- that will only happen between the covers of a Tom Clancy novel. In real life not only have the Palis poisoned their own public image too much for such an attempt to pass the giggle test (remember that Rev. King never advocated suicide-bombing school buses full of Alabama grade-schoolers), but if any Pali leader or organization suggested such today their own side would probably execute them as "collaborators with Israel". If you want an alternative scenario, try this--
If, back in the '80s, the Pali leadership had eschewed violence and announced that they were resigned to the idea of being citizens of Israel- but they felt that they should have the same full rights as any other Israeli, INCLUDING VOTING RIGHTS... they'd have a serious majority in the Knesset and probably would be close to whatever policy goals they wished by now, just by straight-up democratic process (demographics are wonderful things, no?). They would have also ended up looking like the good guys, since they were only interested in their rights as 'good citizens' while any non-Pali Israelis who raised a fuss could have been dismissed as 'a fringe element, having no standing'.
Of course, that would have required long-term strategic and political smarts, which I have NEVER seen out of ANY Pali political movement.
Hoder, the main problem with your post is that most of the world lionizes the Palestinians and hates Israel. So their predominant image is that of a suffering victim.
Other than that, your analysis is good.
Image is not really the problem. The Palestinians have a leadership problem - the Troll of Ramallah is sinking fast - and, more importantly, a goal setting problem.
What do the Palestinians actually want? Hamas wants the destruction of the Jewish entity. Fatah wants a Palestinian state. I suspect ordinary Palestinians want peace and a set of commercial and labour relationships with Israel.
The roadmap farce was a fairly strong indication the Palestinians are hopelessly divided as to what they actually want and, so long as their leadership has to appease its gunmen, that is exactly how the Palestinians will remain.
The body part frenzy, the kiddie gun porn and the cries of revenge paper over a deeply divided and rather pitiful population.
The breakthrough, if it comes, will be when enough of the gunmen have been killed, either by the IDF or each other, so that a moderate leadership can emerge. I am not holding my breath.
Jay,
There will be more gunmen until the Palestinians change a whole lot. IMO that won't happen until there are lot less Palestinians. If they had done to us what they've done to Israel, there wouldn't be many Palestinians.
When enough Israelis really want to end Palestinian terrorism against them, it will stop due to a sudden dearth of Palestinians.
Hoder,
The reason why more Palestinians have died than Israelis is that very many of the suicide bombing attempts have failed, due either to technical malfunction or to successful interception of the bomber (as at the roadblock today). Let us all be very clear that the casualty differential is in no way a demonstration of restraint on the Palestinians' part.
How many palestinians are there, anyhow?
Joe,
It is even worse than you have intimated.
During the four years before the start of the stupidfada Pali unemployment went from about 35% to around 15%. The Israeli and Pali economies were integrating.
The stupidfada and its main tactics (stupicide bombing) were especially designed to reverse that integration.
As one Pali official put it at the time: people who are eating well don't want to fight. The "leadership" has destroyed the Pali people's aspirations for their own gain. The Pali people know. They euphemistically call it corruption. You will note that the meople most loudly shouting the corruption mantra are also the people clamoring for peace in whispers. Why whispers? Shouting for (real) peace can get you killed.
The problem will be the next generation. The indoctrinated kids. The Palis are in for a very rough ride. Very rough.
BTW the reason the Pali situation is what it is is because Saddam, the Saudis, the pEU, and others have paid to make it what it is today. It has bought the funders 3 or 4 years. The game is over.
The end game is starting.
In another year the Pali cause will be in the dust bin of history.
What will the ME become without the Pali cause to whine about? Also considre that the flow of funds will stop because the internal struggles of the Palis will have no value for the funders.
Two, three years ago the Arabs looked really smart. Next year they will look totally bankrupt.
Bush is a genius. Sharon's Generalship will be studied for generations re:Clauswitz. The melding of political and military actions for defeat of a political/military cause.
BTW Nick, the most intelligent piece I've seen from you in a long time.
I don't agree with killing the innocent jews, it is obvious for everybody, even the Hamas leaders i guess. but lets see it from another point of view, israel's army can kill anybody it wants, they use hellicopter, march the city and launch missiles in the palestinian cities, without any casualties from israelis. nobody force them to leave the land (jewish settlers in west bank)they occupied, the palestinians have been living in refugee camps for half of a century, neither US nor middle east countries cared about them. they struggled for so many years, nobody heard them, they have no other choice, they have simply no other choice. do you think that if palestinian were powerfull enough to target top israelis leaders in Knesset they would use suiside bombers? do u think that if they could battle with the israelis in their land they would choose to kill civilians? do you think that if they would be able to keep Sharon in his room for so many months as the israeli leader, then they would prefer to kill teens in clubs?
besides, I think that israelis are not totally innocent, they ellected Sharon which means that they ordered him to kill more, not Barak or left parties, they wanted more palestinian corpses, they have said that in elections, not just one time but twice during these years. come on, it is obvoius that the both sides are terrorist, Sharon and Hamas, and Sharon is elected, he is elected by his people.
the both sides are mad, and I believe that israel is even a more brutal regime compared to palestinans.
Josh, in very round numbers there are 2MM in the West Bank and 1MM in Gaza. There are now almost 7MM residents in Israel, of whom about 1 in 6 is an Israeli Arab citizen.
M. Simon's 5:16 post has a lot going for it, about motivation for the stupidfada. I would add that I think its originators had no idea it take off the way it did. Violence became the marker of authentic Palestinian resistance to the occupation, and downward the spiral went.
Farshid -
The Israelis elected Barak because they wanted peace. The palestinians responded to the best peace offer they ever got with a declaration of war.
Israelis want peace, palestinians want dead Jews.
i don't agree whole argument. u think palestinian civilians are being killed acidently? i mean how ridiculous is that statement. did u even read it over. blowing up palestinians house each and every day can not happen accidently. messing up their economy for more han 20 years can not be justified. inoccent jews huh? how come the jews get to be innocent in this matter while you have admited yourself that there have been more palestinains killed by the jews. even the strategy of kiling eachother is quite thinkable. killing people by suicide bombing form palestinians or launching missiles with helicopters by the israelis. which one is more brave dear hoder? the problem that palestinians are having is that they're not like a unity. israelis don't know which group are they dealing with, hamas, islamic jihad or palestinan headquarters.
The Palestinians are a Arab-Muslim culture that has become a death cult. They are going to reap a death cult's normal reward of their own free will.
It is simply a matter now of waiting to see whether it will be by their own hands or by their neighbors.
No amount of imaging making is going to change that tragic reality.
farshid,
"israel's army can kill anybody it wants, they use hellicopter, march the city and launch missiles in the palestinian cities"
and yet they have killed so very few relative to their capability, demonstrating that they have exercised enormous restraint. The other day they could easily have inflicted mass casualties at Sheikh Yassin's funeral, but did not. They could have carpet bombed Jenin, but did not. They could have leveled entire towns and destroyed their populations instead of ordering people out of individual houses (belonging to families of suicide bombers, not random residents) before bulldozing them. They could have made the entirety of the West Bank their own (with no Arabs at all) instead of settling a tiny fraction of its area.
The Israelis are succeeding in doing what has rarely been achieved or even attempted in the history of combat, which is to fight a limited war. This point is not adequately emphasized. Preventing the conflict from escalating into total war has been a great achievement both tactically and morally, and the Israelis alone deserve credit for it, since their opponents would pursue total war if they were capable of it. The idea that if the Palestinians could fight on equal tactical terms it would be a "fair fight" and therefore morally preferable is absurd; it is perverse to claim that the far larger catastrophe of all out war would be morally preferable to the much smaller catastrophe we are witnessing now. Given a hard situation with hard choices to make, the Israelis have made them well.
Ok, I've heard every argument before and it just keeps reminding me of episodes of "Star Trek" where Capt. Picard tries negotiating with the "Ferenguies". Those of you who have seen the show will know what I'm talking about. I'm all Ears
Yeah, and bin Laden has an image problem, too.
Hoder, you continue to be one of the more amusing moral equivocators on the web. And in a very ironic way you have just posted something that is oh-so Left-Coast American: Don't change you, just change your image.
Farshid just passed along the Arab way of thought about Israelis: There are no innocents, no civilians, because (pick one): A) There is compulsory military service for all Israelis, so even babies are future soldiers; B) They are a democratic nation, and voted for Sharon, so every Israeli is responsible for his policies (even, apparently, the ones who did NOT vote for Sharon); and C) Anyway they've been oppressing the palis for decades, so it's all their fault, the nasty colonialists. (Let's not mention the continuous Jewish presence in Israel for 3500 years, nor the massacre of the Jews by Arabs in Hebron in 1929--29 years before the state of Israel was established. Arab Jew-killing goes back a long way.)
I would also like to point out that a quarter of a million palestinians were thrown out of Kuwait following the Gulf War, and there was not a peep from the Arab world about that. In fact, the current leader of Hamas in Damascus was one of those palestinians, a fact that was glossed over in his BBC biography (they just said that he "left" Kuwait after living there most of his life).
It is also time to point out that the Arab nations ejected their Jews following the creation of the state of Israel. Instead of setting them up in refugee camps and making the UN pay for them, Israel welcomed these REFUGEES FROM ARAB NATIONS as citizens and gave them (of course) full rights.
What Arab nation did the same for the palestinians? Quick quiz: How many Arab nations have laws against giving palestinians citizenship?
But yes, of course. It's all Israel's fault. The pals are complete innocents.
Uh-huh. Sure.
I have read some comments which apparantly are in response to my comment.
well, first of all I should mention that I am a persian, not an arab. unfortunately persians, in general, have more problems with arab countries than israelis do (read hate). moreover, Iranians have been an ally to the israelis both historically and recently (forget about the last 25 years, because the Islamic government of iran is definietely going to be collapsed in near soon) so I am talking about this issue from a somehow neutral point of view.
if israel stayed behined the green lines, and tried to help the people of the region, we would have the better middle east. it is a democratic country with lots of intellectuals and scienntists, and it is somehow a multiculteral country, they could boost the democratic movement in the middle east and help the region by its magnificent agricultural technology. but instead, there is a government out there that is making a wall inside the land that is not belong to them. Bart said that the israel haven't done too much, well I don't think so, they are making the greatest prison of the whole history, I think it would be the only prison that can be seen from the moon (like chinese wall), if they really want to protect themselves, why they didn't make it in their land or green bordes?
what is the positive point in demolishing a house after somebody make a suicide bomber, it just increases the hatred not love, assume that u r a mother of a child or youngster who did suicide, then some people will come and destroy your house as well, this is what they really are doing with the power. fighting with terrorists is not possible by terrorism, it just encourage them to do more.
Yorish said what kuwaities did to the palestinians and what the other arab nations did to the jews, ok I totally agree with that. but whats the point that israel wants to occupy west bank and gasa strip? what is the relation between them?
to be honest, some times I think that the only thing that would be able to make a human a brutal creature, is a religion, no matter it is islam or judaism.
Can anyone on this weblog tell me where the Palestinian leader, Yassir Arafat, was born, or what nationality he is ?