|
July 15, 2004Hello China, Hello Taiwanby Gary Farber of Amygdala at July 15, 2004 5:53 PM
Gary Farber's home blog is Amygdala. It being summer, sing that to the tune of the great Allan Sherman's Hello, Muddah, Hello, Faddah. If you can laugh. Summer Pulse '04 is here. As announced on June 3rd by the Navy: WASHINGTON (Jun. 3, 2004) -- The Department of Defense announced June 2 that this summer, simultaneous deployment of seven aircraft carrier strike groups (CSGs) will demonstrate the ability of the Navy to provide credible combat power across the globe by operating in five theaters with other U.S., allied and coalition military forces. “Summer Pulse 04” will be the Navy’s first exercise of its new operational construct, the Fleet Response Plan (FRP). FRP is about new ways of operating, training, manning, and maintaining the fleet that results in increased force readiness and the ability to provide significant combat power to the President in response to a national emergency or crisis.Sounds rather bland and tame, doesn't it? As European Stars & Stripes put it: Call it surging, or call it pulsing; it’s really just FDNF-ing. And nobody FDNFs like the USS Kitty Hawk, its sailors say.What's it really mean, Mr. Natural? I'm no mind reader, but I found this analysis from the Straits Times, of how the Chinese see it, which I read there back on June 5th, and which I can no longer find via search on their site, fairly persuasive: According to a posting on Sina.com, an influential website in China, the signs point to a gathering of all seven CSGs in the Pacific.China remains unhappy: US should reconsider its Taiwan policies: If the United States continues to send wrong signals to Taiwan in the present intensity of effort, then, there is the possibility that contingent event may break out across the Taiwan Straits.US committed to one China, yet sells arms to Taiwan. Summer Pulse '04 was publically announced on June 4th, though known to military sources for some time before. On June 5th, in clear response, China announced: BEIJING - China's largest military exercises of the year, to take place this month, are meant to send a 'substantial warning' to Taiwan separatists, state media said yesterday.It's prudent of us to demonstrate to the Chinese that, though our Army may be tied up in Iraq, our Navy is not, and our capabilities in that regard, and of the Air Force, remain formidable. Yesterday, reportedly in reaction to Condoleeza Rice's recent Chinese visit, we saw this: China expressed grave concern Tuesday that recent U.S. support for Taiwan and Hong Kong was undermining Washington's commitment to its one-China policy.The Chinese aren't happy. The Taiwanese are worried. This is scarcely the first time one can say that -- indeed, it's been an eternal verity since 1949 -- but these are very significant escalations, unprecedent in their scale on both sides, of force and saber-rattling. Take note. Read The Rest Scale: as you wish for any, but I've quoted most of the relevant links. Tracked: July 18, 2004 4:48 AM
Much, much ado. from Brainysmurf
Excerpt: Much, much ado. The yearly war exercizes off the coast of Fujian and various other developments are bringing attention back to The Question. Will China invade Taiwan? There's some confusion (at least on my part) as to what the Summer Pulse story means ...
Tracked: July 19, 2004 11:14 PM
Summer Pulse 04 Misinformation from Eye of the Storm
Excerpt: A couple of weeks ago I posted about Summer Pulse 04, the exercise that has put seven aircraft carriers to sea at one time.
Tracked: July 22, 2004 4:43 AM
Who Would Win the War? - Analysis from DisOrientated
Excerpt: There's been so much talk about it recently, but there's one question remaining: who would win? As a former naval reporter at Jane's, publishers of renowned journals Jane's Defence Weekly and Jane's Fighting Ships, I think I'm qualified to come up with...
Comments
#1 from praktike at 6:05 pm on Jul 15, 2004
wait a minute. doesn't this happen every time we review arms sales to taiwan? "wait a minute. doesn't this happen every time we review arms sales to taiwan?" China growling? Certainly. Us sending seven carrier battle groups? No.
#3 from J Craig at 7:05 pm on Jul 15, 2004
There is indeed only one legitimate government in China - the democratically elected government based in Taiwan. The group in control of mainline China is a totalitarian regime which claims to be of the Communist persuasion (Government directed but not completely controlled economy, strong nationalism depended on racial identity - sounds more like the definition of Fascism). Since it does not “govern with the consent of the governed”, unlike the government in Taiwan, it is, by the theory of government under which the Unites States was formed, not a rightful government. We may have to deal with the Red “Communist” regime in mainline China, but we should never forget that it is not truly legitimate. "There is indeed only one legitimate government in China - the democratically elected government based in Taiwan." There is, however, the minor fact that the KMT no longer is in power in Taiwan, and the party that is claims no sovereignty over China, but rather, that there are two Chinas, and they should be independent. Of course, you can tell them that they should have sovereignty over China. Best of luck with that, and the restoration of Bonnie Prince Charlie.
#5 from J Craig at 8:07 pm on Jul 15, 2004
I agree that they are now 'de facto' two separate countries. But 'de jure', according to the United States and virtually every other county on earth, they are only one country. I was making the point that in that territory considered part of one country, only one legitimate government exists. As for Bonnie Prince Charlie, the Scottish parliament has slowly been acquiring more and more of the power and privileges of the governing body of a sovereign nation. To quote Mel Gibson, “Freedom!”.
#6 from HC at 8:08 pm on Jul 15, 2004
This is not the apocalyptic show of force imagined, with all seven carriers off Taiwan. The US has never sent seven carriers to one theatre in peacetime, and it is not starting now. To begin, the Truman and the Enterprise are bound for the Mediterranean. http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2004/nr20040701-0960.html With the Kennedy relieving the Washington in the Persian Gulf, I can not see it reaching Taiwan either, and since the Washington is homeported in Norfolk I would expect to return by a route more direct than through Taiwan. http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=13962 In support of that expectation, the Washington's June/July Ombudsman newsletter promises that their next port call is in a European city on the way home. http://www.spear.navy.mil/gw/Ombudsman_News_June.pdf This leaves three carriers for the Pacific. Since the Stennis and Kitty Hawk are scheduled for dual carrier exercises in the 'Western Pacific', I would not be surprised if they happened to be in the vicinity of Taiwan, or at the least available to make a showing in that neighbourhood, though the Reagan looks like it will make a beeline for San Diego. http://www.cpf.navy.mil/Story%20Archive/summer_pulse_3.htm The bottom line is that there are two carriers which might exercise near Taiwan. This may be sabre-rattling and forward deployment, but this is not unprecedented US pressure on China. The strategic implications of the ability to have 6-8 carriers at sea at any one time are significant, and unlikely to be lost on Beijing, but the threat is not as naked as the post suggests. HC
#7 from praktike at 8:53 pm on Jul 15, 2004
Interesting factoid: the literal translation of the characters for China are "center country." So when you get into the Taiwan airport, you see the same characters, despite the fact that Taiwan isn't really the center of anything. "The bottom line is that there are two carriers which might exercise near Taiwan. This may be sabre-rattling and forward deployment, but this is not unprecedented US pressure on China." You're probably right that I should have been clearer and stated that I saw no factual indication that seven carriers were going to the Taiwan Straits. "The strategic implications of the ability to have 6-8 carriers at sea at any one time are significant, and unlikely to be lost on Beijing, but the threat is not as naked as the post suggests." Fair point. My point was that Beijing seemed to taking the exercise as aimed directly at them, and that the fact of the revised Fleet Response Plan meant that they had reasonable cause. (See also here.)
#9 from Sam Barnes at 9:55 pm on Jul 15, 2004
praktike, How about a "center of controversy?" =)
#10 from praktike at 10:18 pm on Jul 15, 2004
Center of motorized scooters?
#11 from Ray at 11:39 pm on Jul 15, 2004
Part of what makes things so dangerous now, is that for the first time since the late 1970s (when the situation was different), China has a divided leadership, which may seek to score points off each other by adopting "tougher than the other guy" positions with respect to Taiwan. That increases the chances that they may be ... less than wise in their behavior.
#12 from mitch p. at 1:17 am on Jul 16, 2004
I wonder if this was partly brought on by fear of opportunism by hostile regional powers in the immediate aftermath of a large Al Qaeda strike in the USA - a demonstration that no matter what, the US can respond quickly and on any front. "I wonder if this was partly brought on by fear of opportunism by hostile regional powers in the immediate aftermath of a large Al Qaeda strike in the USA - a demonstration that no matter what, the US can respond quickly and on any front." I think that although by no means entirely -- for various reasons of force development that are too small to write into the margins of this comment -- to some extent, most definitely. But only in a rather large, and long term, sense. (It does show the flag to Kim Il Jong, but that's a damn complex situation with no sign of short-term combustion.) Just my armchair opinion, of course.
#14 from Tom Roberts at 1:37 am on Jul 16, 2004
In re: Actually, the current exercises pale in comparison to the US intervention in Korea in 1950. Hopefully the PRC response will be similarly restrained. But your historical comparison is false. "Actually, the current exercises pale in comparison to the US intervention in Korea in 1950. Hopefully the PRC response will be similarly restrained. But your historical comparison is false." Well, yes, to be sure, I hadn't thought it necessary to write "excluding invasions of South Korea." I beg pardon for that omission. Acheson unwisely didn't mention Korea in the "US perimeter" of defense, and stuff happened. Declaring the resulting invasion of Kim Ill Sung, or, to be sure, the United States response, a "US intervention" is an unusual perspective from my point of view, though not, perhaps, from yours. "Part of what makes things so dangerous now, is that for the first time since the late 1970s (when the situation was different), China has a divided leadership, which may seek to score points off each other by adopting "tougher than the other guy" positions with respect to Taiwan." Darn tootin', as we see here.
#17 from 3dc at 5:54 am on Jul 16, 2004
The wife is staying in Taiwan today with a family friend who is one of their top army generals. She asked him about this issue after I told her about it. He said he wasn't worried at all. Just more bluster by politicans. He was more worried about the strategic battle for promotions in the coming year and which general's factions would come out on top. "He said he wasn't worried at all. Just more bluster by politicans. He was more worried about the strategic battle for promotions in the coming year and which general's factions would come out on top." In this case, that seems almost entirely sensible. On the other hand, with all due respect, honestly, and I apologize for any offense, that sort of attitude is exactly, classically, why the KMT wound up in possession of Taiwan, not China. Sure China is growling, but it's a dog that is posed to bite. I've chronicled China's massive military build-up for some time now. What China is doing now is no sabre rattling. At this point in discussion I'm now starting to look foward to just how many metaphors we can mix. I'd like to see the dog that can rattle the sabre, myself. Not only is that dog quite a cat, he probably deserves a Taiwanese Generalship. America
#22 from Lurker at 2:25 pm on Jul 16, 2004
Hiro,
They did that to china by foisting a taiwan- so that these two countries should constantly bicker among themselves and waste their resources on arms and military spending. Similarly they have weakened india by creating pakistan.Perhaps you can explain how America created Taiwan and Pakistan. If the Saarc nations were smart they would see that these divisions have been created by the imperialistsDid these imperialists create Islam to further their nefarious schemes. Certainly the various imperialists of the world have much to answer for, but claiming that they are the reason for the division of the sub-continent is obtuse. If only everyone had listened to Gandhi! "Similarly they have weakened india by creating pakistan." Gosh, it was America that split Imperial India in 1948; who knew? Mohammad Ali Jinnah, and the Moslem League were clearly agents of the, originally, OSS, post COG, then earliest CIA, to be sure, although possibly, earlier, agents of Fu Man Chu. Brits? Never seen, any more than any other history happened in India. I gotta get me some Hindu mystic guru friends; they seem very handy, and would come in muchly so for this blog. Lurker and Gary Farber: Well, of course the U. S. created Taiwan and Pakistan. We also installed the French in French Indochina and the Brits in India. Probably goaded the Mongols into sacking Baghdad as well (time travel, very hush-hush).
Post a comment
Here are some quick tips for adding simple Textile formatting to your comments, though you can also use proper HTML tags: |
You're Reading an Individual Post!
If you want to head to the main blog page, just follow the "Main" link in the navigation up top underneath our blog's name. Or click here:
Winds of Change.NET Home
Winds of Change Library
Support VictoryPAC
Recent Entries
· Going Solar, Chapter 2
· The Funniest Thing I've Heard All Day... · Well, I Know Who I Won't Be Voting For For Governor · Someone At The New York Times Is A Monty Python Fan... · An Experiment On Blog Diffusion... · The Bin Ladens of the Balkans, Part I · On The Road Again (Literally, this time)...and a few passing thoughts. · The Truth about March 14 · Mr. Smith Goes To Topeka · Is the War Over? · An Abominable Blood-Logged Plain · Back On The Road This Week · Responding To Chris H On Patriotism · Guns At Home · Guns In The Woods
Support Winds of Change.NET!
Your support & assistance is greatly appreciated, and makes a difference!
The Winds Crew:
Town Founder: Joe Katzman joe {at} windsofchange. net Joe's Normblog Interview Left-Hand Man: Marc 'Armed Liberal' Danziger armed {at} windsofchange. net A.L.'s Normblog Interview Other Winds Marshals 'AMac', aka. Marshal Festus (AMac@...) Robin "Straight Shooter" Burk 'Cicero', aka. The Quiet Man (cicero@...) David Blue (david.blue@...) 'Lewy14', aka. Marshal Leroy (lewy14@...) 'Nortius Maximus', aka. Big Tuna (nortius.maximus@...) Other Regulars 'Callimachus' (callimachus@...) 'Demosophist' (demosophist@...) Rev./Maj. Donald Sensing 'Molon Labe' (molon.labe@...) 'Neo Neo-Con' Tarek Heggy (tarek@...) Semi-Active: Arthur Chrenkoff 'Gabriel Gonzalez' (in Paris) Tim Oren (tim@...) Trent Telenko (trent@...) Posting Affiliates Athena: Terrorism Unveiled Chester: The Adventures of Chester Dave Schuler: The Glittering Eye Grim: Grim's Lair et. al. Joel Gaines [Russia] Michael Totten MILblogging.com: The MilBlogs directory Murdoc [Military] Situational Awareness team [Military] Nathan Hamm [Central Asia] Randy Paul [Latin America] Robert Koehler [Koreas] Robi Sen [India & S. Asia] Nitin Pai [India & S. Asia] Simon [China & E. Asia] Yehudit: Kesher Talk Regular Topic Briefings: Andrew Olmsted [Iraq Weekly] Joel Gaines [Iraq Weekly] Security Watchtower [GWoT Mon.] Peace Like A River [GWoT Mon.] Colt [GWoT Thu.] John Atkinson [Alternative Energy] Peter Wolfgang [Alternative Energy] Omri Ceren [Hatewatch] Emeritus: Adil Farooq (adil@...) Celeste Bilby (celeste@...) Dan Darling Gary Farber (gary@...) Hossein Derakhshan (hoder@...) T.L. James (tljames@...) Robin Burk (robin@...)
Winds of Change.NET Blogkids & Affiliates
· The Argus: covering Central Asia · Canis Iratus: Glen Wishard · Correct-Amundo: Tech & society · Discarded Lies: Ev & Zorkie · The Flying Kiwi: Donovan Janus · The Glittering Eye: Dave Schuler · Gumptionology: Nortius Maximus · Hot Needle of Inquiry: 'Jinnderella' · Laughing Wolf: C. Blake Powers · Out The Mazoo: 'Mazoo' · Power and Control: M. Simon · Praktike's Place: 'Praktike' · Random Probabilities: Robin Burk · Siberian Light: covering Russia · The Spirit of Man · Good News From the Front · WATCH/: covering the war on terror
Archives By Category
-FEATURES: 48 Ways to Wisdom (24)
-FEATURES: Diaries & Roundups (10) -FEATURES: Military Transformation Uplink (12) -FEATURES: New Energy Currents (20) -FEATURES: Reader Highlights (2) -FEATURES: Regional Briefings (166) -FEATURES: Sufi Wisdom (158) -FEATURES: The Bard's Breath (32) -FEATURES: Winds of Discovery (6) -FEATURES: Winds of War [WoT] (444) 4 HA: 4th-Gen Warfare (102) 4 HA: al-Qaeda (159) 4 HA: Crime, Organized (26) 4 HA: Evil Exists (110) 4 HA: Intelligence/Spycraft (100) 4 HA: Military (521) 4 HA: Nukes, Poisons, Germs (135) 4 HA: Statecraft (29) 4 HA: War on Terror articles (706) Best Of... (179) BIZ: Business & Organizations (131) BIZ: Economics (96) BIZ: Energy (71) CIVIS (230) CIVIS: Copyright Wars (25) CIVIS: Drug Wars (18) CIVIS: Edu-Kooks (76) CIVIS: Free Societies (289) CIVIS: Hall of Shame (162) CIVIS: Hatred Rising (114) CIVIS: Journalism & Media (398) CIVIS: Spirit of America.NET (31) CIVIS: War Within the West (309) COLUMNISTS: M. Simon (13) COLUMNISTS: Tarek Heggy (33) GEO: Afghanistan (78) GEO: Africa (102) GEO: Asia (116) GEO: Aussies & Kiwis (20) GEO: Canada (68) GEO: China (86) GEO: Europe (178) GEO: France (71) GEO: India-Pakistan (112) GEO: Iran (223) GEO: Iraq (957) GEO: Israel (246) GEO: Koreas (64) GEO: Latin America (63) GEO: Middle East (255) GEO: Russia (74) GEO: Saudi Arabia (64) GEO: Sudan (36) GEO: U.K. (70) GEO: U.N. (60) GEO: U.S. of A (502) HUMANITY (88) HUMANITY: Art & Culture (158) HUMANITY: Art - Music (32) HUMANITY: Art - Poetry (6) HUMANITY: Christianity (52) HUMANITY: Heroes & Achievements (228) HUMANITY: History (124) HUMANITY: Islam (182) HUMANITY: Judaism (136) HUMANITY: Love (32) HUMANITY: Philosophy (48) HUMANITY: Spirituality & Religion (72) HUMANITY: Zen & Buddhism (28) Humour (195) Misc. (42) NET: Blogosphere (392) NET: Cyber-Security (16) NET: Grid Computing (3) NET: Spam (24) NET: The Internet (35) NET: The Open Source Meme (17) Personal (188) SCI-TECH: Biotech & Medical (83) SCI-TECH: Eco-tech (81) SCI-TECH: Nanotech (27) SCI-TECH: Science (111) SCI-TECH: Space (75) SCI-TECH: Technology (143) SPORTS (45) SPORTS: Baseball (75) Trends (64) USA: America Catch-all (19) USA: Anti-Americanism (6) USA: California Politics (5) USA: Conservatives & GOP (31) USA: Dem Party Renewal (71) USA: Domestic Issues (50) USA: Elections (84) USA: Grand Strategy (15) USA: Homeland Security (106) VictoryPAC (3) Winds of Change.NET (49)
Archives by Date
July 2008
June 2008 May 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005 April 2005 March 2005 February 2005 January 2005 December 2004 November 2004 October 2004 September 2004 August 2004 July 2004 June 2004 May 2004 April 2004 March 2004 February 2004 January 2004 December 2003 November 2003 October 2003 September 2003 August 2003 July 2003 June 2003 May 2003 April 2003 March 2003 February 2003 January 2003 November 2002 October 2002 September 2002 August 2002 July 2002 June 2002 May 2002 April 2002 Joe's Old Archives, By Title: April - June 2002 July - December 2002
Winds Blogroll
Top Prospects
Support VictoryPACSP Normblog (LHP) SP Solomonia (RHP) RF Mader Blog CF Donklephant LF Harry's Place C Critical Mass 1B Tigerhawk 2B Gideon's Blog SS Alexander the Average 3B Democracy Arsenal UT INF Pundita DH Counterterrorism Blog PEN Liberals Against Terrorism CL Gates of Vienna MASCOT Huffington's Toast MGR Robert Tagorda GM Conservative Grapevine Humour Blogs · Cox & Forkum (cartoons) · Day By Day (cartoons) · User Friendly (cartoons) · AllahPundit (satire) · Scrappleface (satire) Religious Blogs · Conscientia (baha'i) · Unlearned Hand (bud) · Eve Tushnet (cath) · Muslim Under Progress (isl) · Ideofact (isl) · Kesher Talk (jew) · Rabbi Lazer Brody (jew) · Rishon Rishon (jew) · Rev. Donald Sensing (prot) Other Team Memberships · Command Post [All] · No End But Victory [All] · AlwaysOn [JK] Blog Services · NZ Bear's Ecosystem · Blogstreet · Daypop Top 40 · Technorati · Movable Type.org · Write A Better Blog More entries coming! |
http://www.windsofchange.net/windsopcentre-cms/trackback.cgi/2964
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference
"Hello China, Hello Taiwan"