Can I just shorten that to Idiot, please Blogfather? For he truly is...

Blogchild, any man, woman or dog can be an idiot. It is our privilege as fallible creatures in a fallen world.

Jimmy Swaggart has abused his privilige. His consistency, plus the clear existence of an underlying flaw in his character and judgment, makes him something more than an idiot. He is a serial idiot, a professional idiot, a congenital idiot. He is an idiotarian by faith and profession.

May the good Lord have mercy upon his soul, and swiftly send the healing and awakening that Mr. Swaggart so clearly needs.

LOL! Point conceded.

Jebus. Did he really say that? I mean, can it be verified at all?

The ongoing CRTC investigation here in Canada will nail that down pretty clearly. But it isn;t out of character. Oh, and I noticed this:

"The remarks were met with applause from his congregation."

Because I don't know their full track record, I'll be generous and refrain from labelling them as idiotarians too. But if he said this and they actually applauded, they're idiots. Worse - they are accomplices in Swaggart's public desecration of G-d's name, and they too shall answer for it.

Jimmy is still around? I remember the days when the most frightening religious fanatics I knew of were those like Jimmy. How - in a sad way - I miss those days.

Instapundit has several links to Christian blogs dicussing Jimmy the Idiot.

Sidenote: Hey Joe! Did you get my email?

On Wednesday, Swaggart said he has jokingly used the expression "killing someone and telling God he died" thousands of times, about all sorts of people. He said the expression is figurative and not meant to harm. "It's a humorous statement that doesn't mean anything. You can't lie to God -- it's ridiculous," Swaggart told The Associated Press. "If it's an insult, I certainly didn't think it was, but if they are offended, then I certainly offer an apology."

Mr. Swaggart has a way of creating unintended consequences; this isn't the only example. He tried to make a case for exempting his ministry from sales taxes, which went all the way to the Supreme Court (Jimmy Swaggart Ministries v. Board of Equalization, 493 U.S. 378 (1990)) and ended up making all religions subject to sales taxes. What must've impressed the Court was not just his sales of bibles and sermons and whatnot but "T-shirts with JSM logo, mugs, bowls, plates, replicas of crown of thorns, ark of the covenant, Roman coin, candlesticks, Bible stand, pen and pencil sets, prints of religious scenes, bud vase, and communion cups." (Id. at 383).

Kind of ironic, Jimmy selling religious coins when Jesus, in Matthew 22:19 et seq asked to see a Roman denarius and then said "render unto Caesar." Bet He never figured on His ministers selling denarii and then having to render unto Caesar at 8.75%.

(The crown of thorns bit may be a trifle curious as well.)

I imagine that his latest gaffe does make more problems for people in his line of work, however. Maybe his apologies should be directed accordingly.

I just came accross this website and had never heard of this episode until today. Just as some background introduction, my church leaders happen to be strong supporters of his ministry and donnie comes to our church in Australia once a year now. However, that does not mean that i am quite so strongly opinionated in this subject. On the other hand i happen to be one of few people in my congregation that seem to be of the opinion that something is amiss in regards to their ministry and teahcings, as i have heard Donnie say some things from the pulpit that i would never have expected to hear from a church. I heard him once say that "noone cares about your problems because they have problems of their own", which again met with considerable applause. This statement to me however goes against everything i have ever read about the unity and love and caring nature that was shown by the early church and that should be shown from us as christians.

Anyway, to the main point of this statement. The one thing that stands out most to me from this whole situation is not the fact that he said something completely idiotarian, but the fact that his defence of that statement goes against the responsibilities of a pastor. to say anything like that jokingly or not to me is blasphemy. (A) because murder is a sin, and to even hate your brother is to commit murder (1John 3:15), and to even think about committing murder is just as bad as doing it; (B) if he said it as a joke then he is mocking God and uing the pulpit incorectly by not speaking the words of God, because God does not lie nor 'jokingly' speek like that, so he was not speaking the words of God.

This is my opinion and my convictions in this regard, and i dont expect anyone to accept what i say without first testing it in accordance with the Word of God.

As a alumni of W.E.B.& S. (the swaggart bible college) I was very upset at his comments on this issue. I am currently a Pastor, and no its not in our christian teaching that homosexuality is "right" but it does say to LOVE... thus we must love the person, we dont have to LOVE what they are doing... any gay man or woman would be very welcomed in my congregation, what that person does is between them and God. In my bible there is a thing that says "Thou shall NOT kill" and coming from that very college they use that same bible (ironic huh) so with the most respect, due to Rev Swaggart, from a product of your teachings, we should not want to KILL but we should love thats why Jesus came is to love he died for "everyone" John3:16 and to be just plain funny.. I doubt that any man would look at you in that way. Again with the most respect given to my peers, but in my Southern Preacher Boy attitude "geeez man, watch what you say"!!!
Thanks Pastor Jon

I too just showed up today and read all the comments and noticed the complete absence of Scriptural remarks about sexual perversion so I thought I'd share just one of them that is in Lev chapter 18 and also chapter 20. There are others in both the Old and New Testaments if you care to learn. If you want to find them, there are more than enough resources on the web. If you want objectivity, avoid those posted by sexual perverts. Once you see the plain truth of God's Word, then it's interesting to see the many ways the darkened heart of man devises to twist and pervert God's Word as they've already done with their lives.

God said to execute any man that lies with a woman as with a man. Leviticus 18 and 20.

Consider that for a few minutes before you answer it or read any more of what I have to say. God Almighty said to not let those who practice sexual perversion live. It's not debatable; God said it plainly and it's perfectly clear to any honest reader. The key word here is "honest", as in honest with oneself.

Now, if you are willing to accept the authority of God's Word and God's commandment ( precept, standard or opinion if you will), we can go on to the other useless and senseless discussions that are really raised as diversions (because one doesn't like what God's Word says) and also to the issues legitimately raised regarding our attitudes towards homosexuals in light of God's Word.

First, how do you love a dead man? If sexual perverts were executed by the authorities as God's Word commanded, then God's people have no obligation, responsibility or even opportunity to love sexual perverts. I've noticed those that condemn those that don't love sexual perverts never (strong emphasis on "never") raise the issue or address it. I think that a very strong argument could be raised that if a class (or classless, if you will) of people don't exist because they've all been executed for their crimes against nature, then no has the obligation to treat them as family or "neighbor" (referencing Jesus' parable of the good Samaritan) because they simply don't exist to be able to be so treated.

At the same time, I recognize that different perspectives exist and if you, as a committed believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, obedient to His commandments, think you should love the vilest sinner whoever he may be, I wouldn't fault you for it. I simply made my point because it seems such an obviously reasonable point and those enemies of God who love what God hates absolutely refuse to raise it or allow it into a discussion.

Another issue that is relative to my point is that since the wicked have prevailed on the government establishment to approve what God despises, and sexual perverts are not executed as God told His people to do, then they are in fact alive and we have to decide our responsibility (attitude and behavior) towards them. I think I've already made the two extremes of our possible responses and I think also that everyone has seen, in practice, the many options in between that have been taken by various people. It's should be understandable to most, given the point that I made, why this can be a difficult decision to make. Though many don't mentally work through the details, their spirits do grasp the problem I mentioned (even though the wicked don't want it discussed) and many struggle with it.

There are numerous specific Scriptures that address how we should treat those both in and outside the church (they are different for those of you who don't know, btw) and for brevity's sake, I'll not go into them, but you can start at 1Cor 5 if you are interested. An additional reason I don't want to get into this aspect of the discussion is that I can appreciate different conscientiously held viewpoints and it's not my agenda to try to force a perspective as the "only right way" in this regard. Yes, friends, the Bible does clearly allow for differences of conscientiously held viewpoints. What it doesn't allow for it the self-deceptions of those who are simply looking to justify what they want to believe. It takes honesty to deal effectively with Scripture and this is one of the virtues that sexual perverts must sacrifice in order to pursue their wickedness (another is honor towards parents and there are others, but this is already long). Everyone instinctively knows that God and sexual impurity don't mix and much of that knowledge is because of all the associated issues that one must deal with in the pursuit of sexual sin.

The last point I want to make regards the remarks of the sexual perverts (hypocrites themselves) who address the hypocrisy of those who condemn sexual perversion while saying little or nothing of heterosexual sin. While sexual perversion is a unique or stand-alone sin inasmuch as the penalty is always death and this is not so for other forms of fornication (heterosexual sin) and this should not be discounted, the objection is very much legitimate and I feel I would be remiss to ignore it. For even when a hypocrite raises an objection against another hypocrite, this doesn't invalidate his objection, it only increases his guilt. Fornication or all "natural" sexual sin is very definitely forbidden by God and the consequences for it are so severe that a Christian who practices sexual sin "has no inheritance in the kingdom of God and Christ". That's pretty serious and those who rant exclusively about homosexuality without condemning other sexual sins do open themselves up to warranted criticism.

Even though the criticism is intended as a deflection, because the sexual pervert, struggling against his conscience wants to do ANYTHING to avoid focusing on his own sin, it does point out the obvious, that many of those condemning a grievous sin are ignoring other grievous sins. (The sexual pervert, by condemning others' hypocrisy, salves his own conscience in his delusion, but is, in truth, searing it.)

For that genuine hypocrisy of me and my brethren, for I too have done the same thing, I apologize. For, even though the charge is made by self-condemned hypocrites themselves, the charge is legitimate and should be addressed and in fact has been addressed frequently among believers in the Lord Jesus, though the sexual perverts tend to not check with the local Gospel assembly to see what issues are under discussion.

In summary, when we point the finger, we should be very careful that we're doing so in purity and not in hypocrisy, because no one, God included, appreciates a hypocrite.

In conclusion, it's interesting that the hypocrisy of Christians and their standards is always at issue with the sexual perverts but the hypocrisy of the sexual perverts is never discussed, as though they are somehow immune to the common malady of hypocrisy, yet in my observances, condemnation of anyone is rarely without hypocrisy.

Matthew:7 1 Do not judge, so that you won't be judged. 2 For with the judgement you use,you Will be judged with the measure you use,it Will be measured to you.

Matthew 7 15 Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheeps clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves. 16 You'll recognize them by their fruit.

Matthew 5 21 You have heard that it was said to our ancestors, Do not murder,and whosoever murders will be subject to judgement. 22 But I tell you,everyone who is angry with his brother Will be subject to judgement.
And whoever says to his brother 'fool' will be subject to the Sanhedrin.

Jesus said:"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

We alone stand before GOD. And anyone who would be so ashamed of GOD
to spell his name as G-D does not even have enough reverence or appreciation for what he has us to be engaged in a conversation about what a man of faith has to say behind the pulpit. If you are so shamed by
God to have spelled his name G-D, then why are you even concerned by whay a preacher has to say anyway. I'm not defending anyone or saying any of this is right. But all of us Will stand before GOD and give an account.

Do you think GOD is going to find the term "idiotarian" comical ?

There is no heirarchy of sin. Murder is just as bad lying,rape,sexual perversion wether homo or hetero, preaching falsely is just as bad as Hitler slaughtering Jews. 1 single sin will get you cast into the abyss. The only "unforgiveable sin" is the sin of unbelief at the time of your death. Can a racist be saved? Can a murderer be saved?
Can gay people be saved? Can people who have hatred in their hearts be saved? YES.....only through the Blood of Jesus Christ...and Repentance. Don't let what others preach be your compass !!!
Man will lead you astray...everytime!! Read and understand the Bible. You alone Will stand before judgement, no one else will be able
to stand for you except Christ. Will He say "Welcome" or
"Depart from Me..for I never knew you"

Quoth "nameless", with no evidence of intending irony:

Don't let what others preach be your compass !!!

Sounds like someone has a beam in his eye. With three exclamation points, yet.

So. What makes anyone thing that "being gay" is a sin anyways? Where's that in the scriptures? And before ye reach for thine English translation, I mean in the original autographs. Let's remember that the word homo (or homosexual) wasn't invented for almost 2,000 years after the last Spirit-breathed scriptures were transcribed. Let's get up to speed brethren.

One is more likely to require forgiveness for being Jimmy Swaggart than for being a homosexual!

God bless you, every one.

Well, first of all, the Bible is very specific, homosexuality is a sin! I am a strong supporter of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, and have been since 1980. This is a man of God, him and his son Donnie have come out against this false doctrine of Rick Warren's unbiblical Purpose driven nonsense and everything else. All of you stupid people who keep talking about judging, you might ought to take that scripture in context, that is referring to what is inside someone's heart, not doctrine! He was clearly joking here, grow up!!!

You people are the true idiots