Warning: ob_start() [ref.outcontrol]: output handler 'ob_gzhandler' conflicts with 'zlib output compression' in /home/windsof/public_html/archives/005637.php on line 1
Winds of Change.NET: Poll Deceptions
Winds of Change.NET: Liberty. Discovery. Humanity. Victory.



Formal Affiliations

Anti-Idiotarian Manifesto
Euston Democratic Progressive Manifesto
Real Democracy for Iran!
Support Denamrk
Million Voices for Darfur
milblogs
Prev | List | Random | Next | Join
Powered by RingSurf!

e-Syndication

October 3, 2004

Poll Deceptions

by Joe Katzman at October 3, 2004 3:52 AM

So, Yahoo! News now has an article titled "Bush Raps Kerry, Slips in Polls." It's based on a recent survey by Newsweek. Unfortunately, this story is a perfect example of why you should treat all media reporting on polls with skepticism. As Powerline notes:

"Newsweek's most recent poll included 345 Republicans, 364 Democrats and 278 independents. This compares to Newsweek's published data for their most recent prior poll, which showed President Bush with a comfortable lead: 391 Republicans, 300 Democrats and 270 independents. Yes, if you drop 46 Republicans and add 64 Democrats, you will get considerably better results for the Democratic nominee." (Hat Tip: The Pink Flamingo Bar & Grill)

The stuff above is called "screening" or weighting" the sample, and it's just one example of polling methodologies you ought to be wary of. Jay Caruso has more on this particular poll.

Other current polls don't seem to square with Newsweek's latest, just as other polls didn't square with Gallup's accounts of a 13% Bush lead a couple weeks ago. Usually, this is just sloppiness rather than bias - but these sorts of gambits can and will be used deliberately by either side.

If polls matter to you, therefore, get used to asking for internals, questioning the questions, and comparing different polls. Caveat elector.

[Update by A.L.: If this subject interests you, you should be reading Mark Blumenthal's 'Mystery Pollster' blog, (via Kaus). Specifically this post...]


TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.windsofchange.net/windsopcentre-cms/trackback.cgi/3391

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference
"Poll Deceptions"
Tracked: October 3, 2004 9:44 PM
Eruption Imminent from Cuz We Said So
Excerpt: Pressure has been building for the weeks or months, and observers report an eruption is possible at any moment. No, I'm not referring to Mt. St. Helens. I'm referring to Kerry supporters, many of whom seem ready to burst over...

Comments
#1 from Joe Katzman at 4:29 am on Oct 03, 2004

See also this post-debate Gallup poll, which also gets into finer detail like trust on specific issues, likability, believability, though enough for the job, etc. in the wake of the debate.

Can you spot any flaws in their method? How do these results compare to the Newsweek poll? The Rasmussen poll? What does this suggest - if anything?

Then add this question to remember and consider later... how will they compare to the Zogby and FOX polls (which have a better record re: consistent sampling, taking the time, and also predictive accuracy)?

#2 from JC at 5:19 am on Oct 03, 2004

Here's a link to a good analysis of polling, Registered Voters (RV's), Likely Voters (LV), and history.

Link here

The real takeaway here is the following results for 2000:

2000: RVs, +1D; LVs, +2R; actual result, +.5D

This means a .5 plus for democrats in party identification in the actual 2000 election .

So the actual results, 2000:

50.25 Democrat,

49.75
Republican.

The percents in THIS Newsweek poll, are:

345/709 = 48.67 Republican.

364/709 = 51.33
Democrat.

The party ID of the newest Newsweek poll tracks much closer to actual party ID turnout in 2000, than the older newsweek poll, which is:

391/691 = 56.58 Republican

300/691 = 43.41
Democrat

So this newer poll, seem to reflect party identification more CORRRECTLY than the last Newsweek poll. The partyID difference in the newest poll from 2000 actuals is 1% for Democrats, a little less than 1% for Republicans, while the older polls difference from 2000 actuals is around 6.75 off, for both Republicans and Democrats. If this is correct, then this particular poll is actually more accurate than Newsweek's last.

This doesn't even get into Independents of course...

What I read for poll information from a republican side is Real Clear Politics

From the democratic side, Ruy Texeira
and MYDD.

I'm sure there are more good Republican sites as well.

#3 from Jan Haugland at 10:55 am on Oct 03, 2004

Leftists addressed the Gallup poll with the same criticism, assuming that pollsters "weigh" results by party affiliation. Gallup certainly doesn't, and I am quite convinced that the same is true with this Newsweek poll.

When people answer that they will vote for Kerry, they are more likely to consider themselves democrats than last week, when some of the same people wanted to vote for Bush. Many people switch party allegiance as they switch candidate.

#4 from Juan A. Hervada at 11:56 am on Oct 03, 2004

I strongly recommend the last post-debate Gallup poll

It supports my view that while most people seem to agree that Kerry “won” the debate, but Bush emerged from his “defeat” considered by the majority of the people who saw the debate to be more believable, more likable and tough enough for the job.

I think that George W. Bush won the debate, if by winning we mean that he got closer to re-election; symmetrically, I believe Kerry lost because he didn’t get any closer to victory on November 2, far from it.

If you want to see the argument in full...

#5 from Pierre Legrand at 7:10 am on Oct 05, 2004

Thanks for the Hat Tip.

I cannot wait for this election to be done. This is such a waste of valuable time. Had there been a candidate with a position like say Howard Dean it would have been a worthwhile experience to clear the air between the far left and the rest of the world. But lurch aint worth it.

Pierre Legrand

Post a comment

Here are some quick tips for adding simple Textile formatting to your comments, though you can also use proper HTML tags:

*This* puts text in bold.

_This_ puts text in italics.

bq. This "bq." at the beginning of a paragraph, flush with the left hand side and with a space after it, is the code to indent one paragraph of text as a block quote.

To add a live URL, "Text to display":http://windsofchange.net/ (no spaces between) will show up as Text to display. Always use this for links - otherwise you will screw up the columns on our main blog page.

Finally, note that a constant onslaught of Trackback spams from auto-generated blogspot blogs has forced Winds to ban the blogspot.com domain from use in comments or trackbacks. If you host on blogspot, consider moving; otherwise, the complaints need to be directed at Google not us.










Archives By Category
-FEATURES: 48 Ways to Wisdom (24)
-FEATURES: Diaries & Roundups (10)
-FEATURES: Military Transformation Uplink (12)
-FEATURES: New Energy Currents (20)
-FEATURES: Reader Highlights (2)
-FEATURES: Regional Briefings (166)
-FEATURES: Sufi Wisdom (158)
-FEATURES: The Bard's Breath (32)
-FEATURES: Winds of Discovery (6)
-FEATURES: Winds of War [WoT] (445)
4 HA: 4th-Gen Warfare (103)
4 HA: al-Qaeda (159)
4 HA: Crime, Organized (26)
4 HA: Evil Exists (111)
4 HA: Intelligence/Spycraft (100)
4 HA: Military (530)
4 HA: Nukes, Poisons, Germs (135)
4 HA: Statecraft (29)
4 HA: War on Terror articles (708)
Best Of... (180)
BIZ: Business & Organizations (135)
BIZ: Economics (99)
BIZ: Energy (73)
CIVIS (233)
CIVIS: Copyright Wars (25)
CIVIS: Drug Wars (18)
CIVIS: Edu-Kooks (76)
CIVIS: Free Societies (293)
CIVIS: Hall of Shame (163)
CIVIS: Hatred Rising (114)
CIVIS: Journalism & Media (410)
CIVIS: Spirit of America.NET (32)
CIVIS: War Within the West (310)
COLUMNISTS: M. Simon (13)
COLUMNISTS: Tarek Heggy (33)
GEO: Afghanistan (79)
GEO: Africa (104)
GEO: Asia (117)
GEO: Aussies & Kiwis (20)
GEO: Canada (70)
GEO: China (87)
GEO: Europe (182)
GEO: France (71)
GEO: India-Pakistan (113)
GEO: Iran (223)
GEO: Iraq (966)
GEO: Israel (247)
GEO: Koreas (64)
GEO: Latin America (63)
GEO: Middle East (256)
GEO: Russia (83)
GEO: Saudi Arabia (64)
GEO: Sudan (36)
GEO: U.K. (70)
GEO: U.N. (60)
GEO: U.S. of A (506)
HUMANITY (88)
HUMANITY: Art & Culture (160)
HUMANITY: Art - Music (32)
HUMANITY: Art - Poetry (6)
HUMANITY: Christianity (53)
HUMANITY: Heroes & Achievements (231)
HUMANITY: History (126)
HUMANITY: Islam (183)
HUMANITY: Judaism (137)
HUMANITY: Love (32)
HUMANITY: Philosophy (49)
HUMANITY: Spirituality & Religion (74)
HUMANITY: Zen & Buddhism (28)
Humour (198)
Misc. (43)
NET: Blogosphere (396)
NET: Cyber-Security (16)
NET: Grid Computing (3)
NET: Spam (24)
NET: The Internet (36)
NET: The Open Source Meme (18)
Personal (196)
SCI-TECH: Biotech & Medical (83)
SCI-TECH: Eco-tech (82)
SCI-TECH: Nanotech (27)
SCI-TECH: Science (112)
SCI-TECH: Space (75)
SCI-TECH: Technology (145)
SPORTS (45)
SPORTS: Baseball (76)
Trends (65)
USA: America Catch-all (19)
USA: Anti-Americanism (6)
USA: California Politics (8)
USA: Conservatives & GOP (40)
USA: Dem Party Renewal (76)
USA: Domestic Issues (54)
USA: Elections (111)
USA: Grand Strategy (15)
USA: Homeland Security (106)
VictoryPAC (3)
Winds of Change.NET (53)

Archives by Date
Winds Blogroll



Recent Entries

Support Winds of Change.NET!


Your support & assistance is greatly appreciated, and makes a difference!
The Winds Crew:

Town Founder:
Joe Katzman
joe {at} windsofchange. net
Joe's Normblog Interview

Left-Hand Man:
Marc 'Armed Liberal' Danziger
armed {at} windsofchange. net
A.L.'s Normblog Interview

Other Winds Marshals
'AMac', aka. Marshal Festus (AMac@...)
Robin "Straight Shooter" Burk
'Cicero', aka. The Quiet Man (cicero@...)
David Blue (david.blue@...)
'Lewy14', aka. Marshal Leroy (lewy14@...)
'Nortius Maximus', aka. Big Tuna (nortius.maximus@...)

Other Regulars
'Callimachus' (callimachus@...)
'Demosophist' (demosophist@...)
Rev./Maj. Donald Sensing
'Molon Labe' (molon.labe@...)
'Neo Neo-Con'
Tarek Heggy (tarek@...)

Semi-Active:
Arthur Chrenkoff
'Gabriel Gonzalez' (in Paris)
Tim Oren (tim@...)
Trent Telenko (trent@...)

Posting Affiliates
Athena: Terrorism Unveiled
Chester: The Adventures of Chester
Dave Schuler: The Glittering Eye
Grim: Grim's Lair et. al. Joel Gaines [Russia]
Michael Totten
MILblogging.com: The MilBlogs directory
Murdoc [Military]
Situational Awareness team [Military]
Nathan Hamm [Central Asia]
Randy Paul [Latin America]
Robert Koehler [Koreas]
Robi Sen [India & S. Asia]
Nitin Pai [India & S. Asia]
Simon [China & E. Asia]
Yehudit: Kesher Talk

Emeritus:
Adil Farooq (adil@...)
Andrew Olmsted [KIA, Iraq]
Celeste Bilby (celeste@...)
Dan Darling
Gary Farber (gary@...)
Hossein Derakhshan (hoder@...)
T.L. James (tljames@...)
Robin Burk (robin@...)


Winds of Change.NET Blogkids & Affiliates

·
The Argus: covering Central Asia
· Canis Iratus: Glen Wishard
· Correct-Amundo: Tech & society
· Discarded Lies: Ev & Zorkie
· The Flying Kiwi: Donovan Janus
· The Glittering Eye: Dave Schuler
· Gumptionology: Nortius Maximus
· Hot Needle of Inquiry: 'Jinnderella'
· Laughing Wolf: C. Blake Powers
· Out The Mazoo: 'Mazoo'
· Power and Control: M. Simon
· Praktike's Place: 'Praktike'
· Random Probabilities: Robin Burk
· Siberian Light: covering Russia
· The Spirit of Man

· Good News From the Front
· WATCH/: covering the war on terror

Archives By Category
-FEATURES: 48 Ways to Wisdom (24)
-FEATURES: Diaries & Roundups (10)
-FEATURES: Military Transformation Uplink (12)
-FEATURES: New Energy Currents (20)
-FEATURES: Reader Highlights (2)
-FEATURES: Regional Briefings (166)
-FEATURES: Sufi Wisdom (158)
-FEATURES: The Bard's Breath (32)
-FEATURES: Winds of Discovery (6)
-FEATURES: Winds of War [WoT] (445)
4 HA: 4th-Gen Warfare (103)
4 HA: al-Qaeda (159)
4 HA: Crime, Organized (26)
4 HA: Evil Exists (111)
4 HA: Intelligence/Spycraft (100)
4 HA: Military (530)
4 HA: Nukes, Poisons, Germs (135)
4 HA: Statecraft (29)
4 HA: War on Terror articles (708)
Best Of... (180)
BIZ: Business & Organizations (135)
BIZ: Economics (99)
BIZ: Energy (73)
CIVIS (233)
CIVIS: Copyright Wars (25)
CIVIS: Drug Wars (18)
CIVIS: Edu-Kooks (76)
CIVIS: Free Societies (293)
CIVIS: Hall of Shame (163)
CIVIS: Hatred Rising (114)
CIVIS: Journalism & Media (410)
CIVIS: Spirit of America.NET (32)
CIVIS: War Within the West (310)
COLUMNISTS: M. Simon (13)
COLUMNISTS: Tarek Heggy (33)
GEO: Afghanistan (79)
GEO: Africa (104)
GEO: Asia (117)
GEO: Aussies & Kiwis (20)
GEO: Canada (70)
GEO: China (87)
GEO: Europe (182)
GEO: France (71)
GEO: India-Pakistan (113)
GEO: Iran (223)
GEO: Iraq (966)
GEO: Israel (247)
GEO: Koreas (64)
GEO: Latin America (63)
GEO: Middle East (256)
GEO: Russia (83)
GEO: Saudi Arabia (64)
GEO: Sudan (36)
GEO: U.K. (70)
GEO: U.N. (60)
GEO: U.S. of A (506)
HUMANITY (88)
HUMANITY: Art & Culture (160)
HUMANITY: Art - Music (32)
HUMANITY: Art - Poetry (6)
HUMANITY: Christianity (53)
HUMANITY: Heroes & Achievements (231)
HUMANITY: History (126)
HUMANITY: Islam (183)
HUMANITY: Judaism (137)
HUMANITY: Love (32)
HUMANITY: Philosophy (49)
HUMANITY: Spirituality & Religion (74)
HUMANITY: Zen & Buddhism (28)
Humour (198)
Misc. (43)
NET: Blogosphere (396)
NET: Cyber-Security (16)
NET: Grid Computing (3)
NET: Spam (24)
NET: The Internet (36)
NET: The Open Source Meme (18)
Personal (196)
SCI-TECH: Biotech & Medical (83)
SCI-TECH: Eco-tech (82)
SCI-TECH: Nanotech (27)
SCI-TECH: Science (112)
SCI-TECH: Space (75)
SCI-TECH: Technology (145)
SPORTS (45)
SPORTS: Baseball (76)
Trends (65)
USA: America Catch-all (19)
USA: Anti-Americanism (6)
USA: California Politics (8)
USA: Conservatives & GOP (40)
USA: Dem Party Renewal (76)
USA: Domestic Issues (54)
USA: Elections (111)
USA: Grand Strategy (15)
USA: Homeland Security (106)
VictoryPAC (3)
Winds of Change.NET (53)

Archives by Date
Winds Blogroll


Powered by:
LighTTPD web server
Ubuntu Linux
Movable Type
Hosted by Pixelgate