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November 5, 2004Hatewatch Briefing 2004-11-05by Lewy14 at November 5, 2004 2:06 AM
Welcome! This briefing will be looking hard at the dark places most mainstream media seem determined to look away from, to better understand our declared enemies on their own terms and without illusions. Our goal is to bring you some of the top jihadi rants, idiotarian seething, and old-school Jew-hatred from around the world, leaving you more informed, more aware, and pretty disgusted every month. This Winds of Change.NET HateWatch briefing is brought to you by Lewy14. (Email me at my handle "hatewatch" here at windsofchange.net). Past briefings and posts on related topics can be found here. Entil'zha veni! HIGHLIGHTED TOPICS
Tracked: November 5, 2004 4:19 PM
Hatewatch Briefing 2004-11-05 from The Dead Hand
Excerpt:
Tracked: November 5, 2004 4:22 PM
Hatewatch Briefing 2004-11-05 from The Dead Hand
Excerpt:
Comments
#1 from Colin Howell at 8:27 am on Nov 05, 2004
Did you check the Internet Archive? They've got pages from the CCC site. Just enter the site URL in the "Wayback Machine" text box.
#2 from lewy14 at 10:05 am on Nov 05, 2004
Colin, thanks for the tip, not having luck with it right this second. I'll mess around with it again tomorrow. For the record given what I've seen of the CCC site it's plausible to me that a quote such as this appeared. I'd just like to see it for myself. Look at your backyard: The week in hate "A 21-year-old man in Warren County, Mississippi, was arrested after he drove a bulldozer through a black church, in an act police say was racially motivated." "In the last few weeks, a Mexican flag was torn down and thrown into a bathroom, two students of different ethnic minority groups got into a fight, and a black student reported that a white student taunted him with a noose, administrators reported." "In Burlington, Vermont, A Jewish high-school teacher had swastikas drawn on the outside of the door to her classroom." "A freshman at Montclair State University in New Jersey was arrested for dormitory vandalism that included swastikas and racist graffiti, and subsequently charged with a bias crime." "In the Philly suburbs, racial tensions are nearing a breaking point as violence breaks out on both sides, aggravated by white students wearing Confederate flags and adopting white-supremacist symbols." I don't think it gets anyone anywhere to call Steve Sailer a racist and act as if that settles the matter. I've read some of his stuff and nowhere do I get the impression that he's motivated by fear or hatred. IANAB, but his work seems pretty scientifically solid. He does have associations with some pretty odious people, but his work is too serious to be dismissed out of hand. Admittedly I haven't looked hard, but I haven't seen anyone take a serious (and successful) crack at refuting his stuff on its merits without resorting to moral arguments. Re: Arab women, I agree completely. Ralph Peters and Thomas Barnett, two guys who don't really see the world quite the same way, both have pointed out the importance of this issue. Every country that remains disconnected and economically backward today is also one that has very limited rights for its women.
#5 from Abu Frank at 3:09 am on Nov 08, 2004
The assertion that Bin Laden's latest rant explicitly threatens states which vote for Bush originates with this translation by MEMRI. It's been suggested that this is a bad translation, but others point out that the "by state" interpretation is explicitly endorsed by the Jihadis themselves . . . No, not "others", MEMRI itself. Your "others" link points to Robert Spencer pointing back to MEMRI. And the MEMRI claim is untrue: The Islamist website Al-Qal'a explained what this sentence meant: "This message was a warning to every U.S. state separately. When he [Osama Bin Laden] said, 'Every state will be determining its own security, and will be responsible for its choice,' it means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president has chosen to fight us . . . Untrue: this isn't the explanation of "the Islamist website al-Qal'a"; it's one comment that one guy posted on al-Qal'a (Abu Aardvark, 2004-11-01). It's like picking up one post to FreeRepublic, and saying "The conservative website FreeRepublic explains what this means." You compound the falsehood by referring to this one individual's statement as an endorsement by "the Jihadis themselves". One guy isn't "the Jihadis". MEMRI support the falsehood by doctoring their translation. They translate "any U.S. state that does not toy with our security automatically guarantees its own security". But there's nothing in the Arabic corresponding to "U.S."; MEMRI added it to enforce their own preferred interpretation. Against that: (1) ". . . no Arab commentators or newspapers seem to have drawn the same conclusions as MEMRI's linguistic geniuses. (Abu Aardvark, loc. cit.) (2) The MEMRI interpretation (and that of the unnamed al-Qal'a poster) doesn't fit the rest of the speech. The theme running through the speech is that Al Qaeda is fighting a defensive war, provoked by U.S. (and Israeli) aggression against the Islamic world. Three excerpts, from the beginning, middle, and end of the speech: . . . let [Bush] explain why we don't strike for example -- Sweden. . . . because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours. . . . is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us. This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No. Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security. Shorter Osama: Leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone. Be like Sweden, and be safe, or stay the course, and face continued retribution. From one POV, the MEMRI piece is a stupid piece of overreach. They could have claimed, with perfect accuracy, that the speech was Osama's endorsement of Anyone But Bush for U.S. President. But that wasn't enough for them. Instead they came out with this BS about Osama offering a state-by-state truce with the 50 U.S. states. On the other hand, as long as dishonesty works -- as long as guys like levy14 will repeat their disinformation uncritically -- why should they restrict themselves to honesty?
#6 from lewy14 at 9:50 am on Nov 08, 2004
Abu Frank: With respect to circularity of reference: Yup, true, it was an editing botch. I should have straightened this out. With respect to the "single comment" poster - point taken, if indeed that's the case, and arguments to the authority of Abu Aardvark are not dispositive in my court. That said, when i did pull up the page, it did look like a bulletin board forum. I don't read Arabic so I don't know if the post in question was a "top level" post, or a comment, or what. The father of an Aardvark himself states: MEMRI's argument entirely on bin Laden's use of the word 'wilayet' instead of 'dawla' to refer to 'state.' While MEMRI is correct that in normal usage, wilayet would refer to a sub-unit (such as an American state), its dictionary definition is, in fact, 'sovereign power, sovereign, sovereignty, rule, government' (Hans Wehr dictionary). You decide.I’ll take “normal usage” over the dictionary, thank you, and Sweden notwithstanding. I don't see how this is a huge distortion, controversial, whatever. I don't see how the state by state interpretation is terribly inconsistent with any of the quotes you pull from Bin Ladens speech. Why wouldn't he try to divide the states? The statement 'your security isn't in Bush's hands or Kerry's hands, but your own hands' is so ambiguous as to be meaningless - last I checked there were only two candidates in the running. I haven't personally whacked any of his crew, does that mean I'm safe? Doubt it. I find it interesting people are getting so bent about it. I mean he brags about bringing down two towers and killing three thousand people, but puhleeze don't accuse him of meddling in our elections, or divide us as a nation. God forbid. But if your point is that I should have been more skeptical, I'll say that in hindsight I'd put some qualifiers around the interpretation. Further, to quote you: Shorter Osama: Leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone. Be like Sweden, and be safe, or stay the course, and face continued retribution.Guys like lewy14 want to know - is this what you think we should do?
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