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March 25, 2005Hatewatch Briefing 2005-03-25by Hatewatch at March 25, 2005 7:00 AM
Welcome! This briefing will be looking hard at the dark places the mainstream media sometimes seem determined to look away from, to better understand our declared enemies on their own terms and without illusions. Our goal is to bring you some of the top jihadi rants, idiotarian seething, and old-school Jew-hatred from around the world, leaving you more informed, more aware, and pretty disgusted every month. This Winds of Change.NET HateWatch briefing is brought to you by Lewy14, and by zorkmidden of Discarded Lies. Past briefings and posts on related topics can be found here. Entil'zha veni! HIGHLIGHTED TOPICS
Tracked: March 25, 2005 6:20 PM
HateWatch Briefing 3/25/05 from Discarded Lies
Excerpt: Here's the bi-weekly HateWatch Briefing from Winds of Change.NET, brought to you in the most hateful manner by Lewy14 and my little hateful self.PA teaches mothers to celebrate their children's deaths; Saudi education and terrorism; Saudi prince critic...
Comments
#1 from Robert McDougall at 6:41 pm on Mar 25, 2005
Lewy14, zorkmidden: . . . speaking of Canada: there’s a hate speech law there, and you’d figure that any such law worth its name would prohibit speech which advocated the murder of civilians. But apparently it’s OK, as long as they’re Israeli. Then it’s just a "free flowing discussion". You might have been better employed attacking what Elmasry actually said, that Jewish Israelis over the age of eighteen are not civilians but IDF Reservists and, therefore, legitimate targets; or considering seriously whether the Canadian authorities could have prosecuted that bad argument, with any prospect of success, as hate speech (the text of the law might be helpful there). It might also have been better to cite, say, Honest Reporting Canada's informative advocacy rather than Little Green Football's customary inanity.
#2 from lewy14 at 9:52 pm on Mar 25, 2005
Robert, I'd read and covered this story before and am quite aware of the rationalization of "Reserve status" that Elmasry employed. That said, I'll conceded that the story as written lacks context, and the Honest Reporting link has a great summary of the whole issue. What I won't concede is that Elmasry's argument is anything but specious rationalization. Whatever the reserve status of Israeli civilians, they are just that, civilians, in moral standing (and in "international law", for what that's worth). God forbid if an Al Qaida train bombing occured in Geneva, and a terror apologist got on the airwaves in Canada explaining that the Swiss had it coming because they're all reservists (and the Crusader's bankers), I wonder whether the legal outcome wouldn't be different. I glanced over the Canadia law; I'm not sure what part of it would preclude prosecution on the grounds that Israelis are reservists. Could you point this out? N.B., I myself am no fan of hate speech laws, and all things considered I'd just as soon let terrorists speak their mind, better to identify them. I do think that with the current atmosphere it's not unreasonable to suspect that selective application of such existing laws is a function of bias, even if that bias is only "anti-Zionist" and not "anti-Semitic". I've followed the Elmasry case. The apology was typically hostile and mealy-mouthed, and was covered well by the Discarded Lies team here. I think Damian Penny also summed it up quite well It's rather of a piece with his other conduct... let's see... this from a CIC Press Release with the good Dr.'s name on it:
And then there was this Diane Francis column, which detailed more of his background. As for Canada's Hate Speech laws, here's what the police said at the time. Which, given that I think "hate speech" laws are bogus, is just as well. As for defending Elmasry on the ground that Israelis are in the Reserves, so it must be OK to blow them up in shopping malls - well, Elmasry's agenda has been clear and consistent. I do not think it unwarranted to wonder exactly how much of that genda and hostility those who shill for thim share. Not to mention that the next justification will be that Israeli children will just be drafted in a decade or two ...
#5 from a at 11:31 pm on Mar 25, 2005
The predictable precarious situation of Christians in post-Saddam Iraq is 100% Bush fault. If he had not attacked they wouldn't be in this situation.
#6 from Robert McDougall at 2:39 am on Mar 26, 2005
lewy14: I'd read and covered this story before and am quite aware of the rationalization of "Reserve status" that Elmasry employed. Right. You repeat the false LGF version of the story not the true HRC one; but that's alright -- because you knew it was false when you repeated it! You likely knew also that the "not really civilians" argument isn't just Elmasry's but fairly common among Arabs and Muslims. You know your own purposes best, but it seems to me they might be better served by exposing the argument than by burying it. What I won't concede is that Elmasry's argument is anything but specious rationalization. Yes, he advances bad arguments for wrong actions -- like every war blogger I've ever read. I'm glad we can agree that it would be bad policy to criminalize such conduct however malignant. I glanced over the Canadia law; I'm not sure what part of it would preclude prosecution on the grounds that Israelis are reservists. I'm neither a Canadian nor a lawyer but, for whatever it's worth:
. . . it's not unreasonable to suspect that selective application of such existing laws is a function of bias . . . For the reasons above, it's reasonable to suspect that application of the law in question to Elmasry's case would have been perfectly hopeless.
#7 from Robert McDougall at 3:27 am on Mar 26, 2005
Joe Katzman: As for defending Elmasry on the ground that Israelis are in the Reserves, so it must be OK to blow them up in shopping malls - well, Elmasry's agenda has been clear and consistent. I do not think it unwarranted to wonder exactly how much of that genda and hostility those who shill for thim share. Preach it! But why waste it here? Go tell those shills at Honest Reporting Canada just what you think of them! In the meantime, those of your readers who can distinguish between describing from defending will note that I describe Elmasry's position but defend the Canadian police's.
#8 from lewy14 at 4:06 am on Mar 26, 2005
Robert, you write: You know your own purposes best, but it seems to me they might be better served by exposing the argument than by burying it. You are correct. I do try to cast a critical eye to the stories I post and dig out the context. In this case I did an inadequate job. Thanks for the earnest and good natured tone, too.
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